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	<title>Comments on: In-house vs. Agency SEM - My take</title>
	<link>http://danperry.com/wordpress/inhouse-vs-agency-sem/</link>
	<description>Discussing golf marketing, internet marketing, golf course reviews, and other miscellany. And maybe beer.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:53:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: malaga golf</title>
		<link>http://danperry.com/wordpress/inhouse-vs-agency-sem/#comment-5103</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 13:17:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://danperry.com/wordpress/inhouse-vs-agency-sem/#comment-5103</guid>
					<description>I tend to agree with Brian on this when he says-"For companies that don’t have the budget to pay an in-house person, a qualified agency makes a lot of sense, especially one that charges reasonably and handles those middling size budgets". Enough said I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tend to agree with Brian on this when he says-&#8221;For companies that don’t have the budget to pay an in-house person, a qualified agency makes a lot of sense, especially one that charges reasonably and handles those middling size budgets&#8221;. Enough said I think.
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		<title>by: Marcus Spofford</title>
		<link>http://danperry.com/wordpress/inhouse-vs-agency-sem/#comment-4799</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 00:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://danperry.com/wordpress/inhouse-vs-agency-sem/#comment-4799</guid>
					<description>I posted the last one, but it doesn't look like my link made it.  SO here it is:
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/7681/davepasternacksqh8.jpg</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I posted the last one, but it doesn&#8217;t look like my link made it.  SO here it is:<br />
<a href="http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/7681/davepasternacksqh8.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/7681/davepasternacksqh8.jpg</a>
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		<title>by: Brian Carter</title>
		<link>http://danperry.com/wordpress/inhouse-vs-agency-sem/#comment-4752</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 03:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://danperry.com/wordpress/inhouse-vs-agency-sem/#comment-4752</guid>
					<description>Cool discussion.  As an agency SEM Director, I'd add this: For companies that don't have the budget to pay an in-house person, a qualified agency makes a lot of sense, especially one that charges reasonably and handles those middling size budgets.

I also think that agencies have to work more efficiently to get results because the have less time for each client than an in-house would.  That's not to say that in-house people are less efficient; just that in my business, I have to make sure that we do white-hat things that get the biggest bang for the time spent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cool discussion.  As an agency SEM Director, I&#8217;d add this: For companies that don&#8217;t have the budget to pay an in-house person, a qualified agency makes a lot of sense, especially one that charges reasonably and handles those middling size budgets.</p>
<p>I also think that agencies have to work more efficiently to get results because the have less time for each client than an in-house would.  That&#8217;s not to say that in-house people are less efficient; just that in my business, I have to make sure that we do white-hat things that get the biggest bang for the time spent.
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		<title>by: danperry</title>
		<link>http://danperry.com/wordpress/inhouse-vs-agency-sem/#comment-4742</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:01:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://danperry.com/wordpress/inhouse-vs-agency-sem/#comment-4742</guid>
					<description>@Kieran: His actions speak louder than his words, and in his case, it's a bad thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Kieran: His actions speak louder than his words, and in his case, it&#8217;s a bad thing.
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		<title>by: Kieran</title>
		<link>http://danperry.com/wordpress/inhouse-vs-agency-sem/#comment-4741</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:52:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://danperry.com/wordpress/inhouse-vs-agency-sem/#comment-4741</guid>
					<description>You know what really disappointed me about Dave's post? The fact that he has yet to respond to any comments. I would have hoped that a man in his position, after making such polarizing comments, would have become part of the discussion. However, it is obviously apparent that he is not looking for a discussion but rather gain attention. I am willing to hear anyone opinions on a matter as I never claim to be all knowing - however I lose all respect for someone who just says things for the sake of being heard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know what really disappointed me about Dave&#8217;s post? The fact that he has yet to respond to any comments. I would have hoped that a man in his position, after making such polarizing comments, would have become part of the discussion. However, it is obviously apparent that he is not looking for a discussion but rather gain attention. I am willing to hear anyone opinions on a matter as I never claim to be all knowing - however I lose all respect for someone who just says things for the sake of being heard.
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		<title>by: danperry</title>
		<link>http://danperry.com/wordpress/inhouse-vs-agency-sem/#comment-4720</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:36:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://danperry.com/wordpress/inhouse-vs-agency-sem/#comment-4720</guid>
					<description>@Barry Bowman: Thanks for the comment. Not a huge fan of the sales pitch at the end, but there was enough value to approve it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Barry Bowman: Thanks for the comment. Not a huge fan of the sales pitch at the end, but there was enough value to approve it.
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		<title>by: Barry Bowman</title>
		<link>http://danperry.com/wordpress/inhouse-vs-agency-sem/#comment-4662</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:55:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://danperry.com/wordpress/inhouse-vs-agency-sem/#comment-4662</guid>
					<description>Hi Dan!  Barry Bowman here:-)  What a great thread discussion you've started here!!

As you pretty much know Dan, I have been on every side of this coin and believe I can add a lot of perspective here. 

I owned my own SEO consulting agency for about 5 years and merged with another company in 2005 who specialized in PPC.  We were then considered a full-service Search Engine Marketing agency providing SEO, PPC, Conversion Consulting services and more.

During the dot.com BOOM, the corporation I worked for realized the need for us to be found online. I went to my first Search Engine Strategies conference in 2000 and a huge light bulb turned on for me.  What little I did learn, I applied to our company web site with phenomenal results for many tier 1 keyphrases (the good ole' days).  I then went to work for a small medical software company...results were even better since my knowledge had grown.  This company went from barely making payroll each month to now being about a $10M company. To this day, they still focus about 90% of their marketing efforts online.  I started to gain some outside attention and decided to go out on my own ;-)

Fortunately in my case, I had the opportunity to apply my limited knowledge, make mistakes that inevitably will happen as a newbie SEO, and continue to learn while working for someone else.  I now have 8 years of that experience under my belt...I'm almost a pioneer in the Search Marketing industry.  I've worked with Time Warner Cable, Road Runner ISP, Ruby Tuesday, Smart Balance, Hostess Cakes, CDW, Career Education Corporation, and many more.

Sorry for all the details...I'll get to my point shortly. But, it's important for a few reasons.  1) There are a lot of so-called 'SEO Experts' available these days.  And, I know for a fact that many of them have just attended their first SES or SMX conference, read a book or two, they can now speak the language and consider themselves EXPERTS, but nothing could be further from the truth.  They may even have a web site or two they've ranked well to show you their "proof".  2) A talented, seasoned SEO professional, can easily make $125k - $250k/yr. depending on many factors...not too many agencies can afford to pay for that sort of talent.  3) Similar to point #1, many who are hired have recently earned a certification from SEMPO, Bruce Clay, Search Engine Workshops (I've been through all this training) and again, they are "experts".  4) Several of the agencies I know of outsource a lot of the work to India, or elsewhere overseas.  Not to say there's not some great overseas talent, but it's very limited...I know...I've done a lot of this sort of outsourcing.

So, in-house vs. outsource to an agency? There will always be the need for agencies to do this sort of work.  Most of what I see is limited resources and budgets within a company.  And, there are several good agencies to choose from.  However, many of the top agencies I know of won't even speak to you unless you can spend $10k/mo. or more.

For the most part, it makes the most sense to bring this in-house.  Even better if you can find a SEM vs. SEO professional, someone who is well versed in both SEO, PPC, Analytics, and more.  This is a HUGE function of Marketing and should be integrated as such.  The problem with outsourcing is you'll never obtain the knowledge you need to continue going forward.  The Internet isn't going away anytime in our lifetime!  And, you don't necessarily need to hire the seasoned SEO pro.  Hire someone who knows what they're doing of course, but an intermediate professional is someone you can groom internally.  Attach bonuses to performance metrics to keep them motivated towards ROI.

How do the internal SEOs stay up-to-date and trained?  Is it worthwhile to send them to a 3-day training course once a year?  Maybe.  Well, that's why I've left the agency world.  I saw a couple years back that this shift was taking place from agencies to bringing the talent in-house.  How did I stay abreast of the constant changes in search algorithms, Google slaps, etc. etc.?  

I was a subscriber to Planet Ocean's www.SearchEngineNews.com for 8 years.  The are the longest standing source of Search Engine training to-date.  They've been teaching Search Engine Marketing now since 1997.  I now work for them and train others what I know.  For more advanced training we have www.seoINsites.com.  Both sites are a continual source of SEM education.  Our clientele is made up of both agencies and in-house staff.  Sorry for what may sound like self-promotion of my company, but I'm often asked, "with all the information that's online, and most of it contradicting each other, how do you know what you're supposed to do?"  Now you know.  Stick with trusthworthy, reliable sources and don't go chasing the algorithm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Dan!  Barry Bowman here:-)  What a great thread discussion you&#8217;ve started here!!</p>
<p>As you pretty much know Dan, I have been on every side of this coin and believe I can add a lot of perspective here. </p>
<p>I owned my own SEO consulting agency for about 5 years and merged with another company in 2005 who specialized in PPC.  We were then considered a full-service Search Engine Marketing agency providing SEO, PPC, Conversion Consulting services and more.</p>
<p>During the dot.com BOOM, the corporation I worked for realized the need for us to be found online. I went to my first Search Engine Strategies conference in 2000 and a huge light bulb turned on for me.  What little I did learn, I applied to our company web site with phenomenal results for many tier 1 keyphrases (the good ole&#8217; days).  I then went to work for a small medical software company&#8230;results were even better since my knowledge had grown.  This company went from barely making payroll each month to now being about a $10M company. To this day, they still focus about 90% of their marketing efforts online.  I started to gain some outside attention and decided to go out on my own <img src='http://danperry.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Fortunately in my case, I had the opportunity to apply my limited knowledge, make mistakes that inevitably will happen as a newbie SEO, and continue to learn while working for someone else.  I now have 8 years of that experience under my belt&#8230;I&#8217;m almost a pioneer in the Search Marketing industry.  I&#8217;ve worked with Time Warner Cable, Road Runner ISP, Ruby Tuesday, Smart Balance, Hostess Cakes, CDW, Career Education Corporation, and many more.</p>
<p>Sorry for all the details&#8230;I&#8217;ll get to my point shortly. But, it&#8217;s important for a few reasons.  1) There are a lot of so-called &#8216;SEO Experts&#8217; available these days.  And, I know for a fact that many of them have just attended their first SES or SMX conference, read a book or two, they can now speak the language and consider themselves EXPERTS, but nothing could be further from the truth.  They may even have a web site or two they&#8217;ve ranked well to show you their &#8220;proof&#8221;.  2) A talented, seasoned SEO professional, can easily make $125k - $250k/yr. depending on many factors&#8230;not too many agencies can afford to pay for that sort of talent.  3) Similar to point #1, many who are hired have recently earned a certification from SEMPO, Bruce Clay, Search Engine Workshops (I&#8217;ve been through all this training) and again, they are &#8220;experts&#8221;.  4) Several of the agencies I know of outsource a lot of the work to India, or elsewhere overseas.  Not to say there&#8217;s not some great overseas talent, but it&#8217;s very limited&#8230;I know&#8230;I&#8217;ve done a lot of this sort of outsourcing.</p>
<p>So, in-house vs. outsource to an agency? There will always be the need for agencies to do this sort of work.  Most of what I see is limited resources and budgets within a company.  And, there are several good agencies to choose from.  However, many of the top agencies I know of won&#8217;t even speak to you unless you can spend $10k/mo. or more.</p>
<p>For the most part, it makes the most sense to bring this in-house.  Even better if you can find a SEM vs. SEO professional, someone who is well versed in both SEO, PPC, Analytics, and more.  This is a HUGE function of Marketing and should be integrated as such.  The problem with outsourcing is you&#8217;ll never obtain the knowledge you need to continue going forward.  The Internet isn&#8217;t going away anytime in our lifetime!  And, you don&#8217;t necessarily need to hire the seasoned SEO pro.  Hire someone who knows what they&#8217;re doing of course, but an intermediate professional is someone you can groom internally.  Attach bonuses to performance metrics to keep them motivated towards ROI.</p>
<p>How do the internal SEOs stay up-to-date and trained?  Is it worthwhile to send them to a 3-day training course once a year?  Maybe.  Well, that&#8217;s why I&#8217;ve left the agency world.  I saw a couple years back that this shift was taking place from agencies to bringing the talent in-house.  How did I stay abreast of the constant changes in search algorithms, Google slaps, etc. etc.?  </p>
<p>I was a subscriber to Planet Ocean&#8217;s <a href="http://www.SearchEngineNews.com" rel="nofollow">www.SearchEngineNews.com</a> for 8 years.  The are the longest standing source of Search Engine training to-date.  They&#8217;ve been teaching Search Engine Marketing now since 1997.  I now work for them and train others what I know.  For more advanced training we have <a href="http://www.seoINsites.com." rel="nofollow">www.seoINsites.com.</a>  Both sites are a continual source of SEM education.  Our clientele is made up of both agencies and in-house staff.  Sorry for what may sound like self-promotion of my company, but I&#8217;m often asked, &#8220;with all the information that&#8217;s online, and most of it contradicting each other, how do you know what you&#8217;re supposed to do?&#8221;  Now you know.  Stick with trusthworthy, reliable sources and don&#8217;t go chasing the algorithm.
</p>
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		<title>by: SearchCap: The Day In Search, June 23, 2008 &#124; Techno Portal</title>
		<link>http://danperry.com/wordpress/inhouse-vs-agency-sem/#comment-4650</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:25:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://danperry.com/wordpress/inhouse-vs-agency-sem/#comment-4650</guid>
					<description>[...] In-house vs. Agency SEM - My take, danperry.com [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] In-house vs. Agency SEM - My take, danperry.com [&#8230;]
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		<title>by: &#187; SearchCap: The Day In Search, June 23, 2008 A+ Computer Professionals: SEO, Web Design, Hosting, Site and Script Installations and Modifications, PHP Coding, and Web Traffic</title>
		<link>http://danperry.com/wordpress/inhouse-vs-agency-sem/#comment-4643</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 01:28:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://danperry.com/wordpress/inhouse-vs-agency-sem/#comment-4643</guid>
					<description>[...] In-house vs. Agency SEM - My take, danperry.com [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] In-house vs. Agency SEM - My take, danperry.com [&#8230;]
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		<title>by: Kieran</title>
		<link>http://danperry.com/wordpress/inhouse-vs-agency-sem/#comment-4624</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 22:07:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://danperry.com/wordpress/inhouse-vs-agency-sem/#comment-4624</guid>
					<description>I just dont get his post...have to say if I was looking for an agency to manage my PPC I would not consider Did-it based on David's mentality. I am looking for a partnership - not a dictatorship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just dont get his post&#8230;have to say if I was looking for an agency to manage my PPC I would not consider Did-it based on David&#8217;s mentality. I am looking for a partnership - not a dictatorship.
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